Treussard Talks.

Tax Alpha, Mechanics over Magic with Brent Sullivan | Treussard Talks (E14)

Tax strategies sold as "alpha" often obscure their actual mechanics — and the investment risks you're taking to get the tax benefit.
Brent Sullivan — "Tax Alpha Insider," formerly on PIMCO's trading floor and Parametric's quantitative team — decodes what's really happening beneath the marketing slides. For founders with embedded gains, executives navigating concentrated positions, and investors tired of advisors who dazzle with complexity rather than deliver clarity, this conversation cuts through the noise.
The Framework That Matters
Brent establishes the hierarchy up front: tax belongs after risk, return, diversification, and cost — not before them. In other words: "Don't let the tax tail wag the investment dog."
Too many advisors lead with tax benefits because they're compelling, then reverse-engineer the investment justification. This conversation does the opposite — we start with what these strategies do, then examine whether the tax advantages justify the risks.
What We Cover:
ETF tax efficiency demystified: How in-kind redemptions move taxable events "outside the box" — the actual mechanics, not the marketing magic.
Section 351 in-kind seeding: The path from concentrated positions to diversified portfolios without triggering capital gains, including the 25/50 diversification tests. Spoiler: if 100% of your wealth is in a single stock, this isn't your solution.
Tax-aware long/short overlays: Margin rates, borrow costs, short rebates, haircuts — why these are investment strategies first with tax benefits as byproduct. Understanding this prevents expensive surprises when financing terms change overnight.
Box spreads as synthetic borrowing: How they work, borrowing vs. lending mechanics, and the dangers of DIY'ing this unless you understand American vs. European options, collateral haircuts, and four-legged options execution.
Dark-case thinking throughout: What breaks when markets dislocate, counterparties prioritize self-preservation, and the "temporary pain" you need to be prepared for. Not fearmongering — the adult conversation about sizing exposure appropriately.
Why This Matters
The industry has productized sophisticated tax strategies. But productization doesn't eliminate complexity — it just hides it.
The stakes for investors with meaningful embedded gains:
Avoidable taxes triggered by strategies you didn't fully understand
Hidden costs in financing terms that change when you need stability most
Investment risks dressed up as tax solutions
Execution mistakes from attempting sophisticated trades without professional knowledge
Counterparty exposure to institutions whose crisis priority is self-preservation, not your portfolio
Who Should Listen
This is for investors who:
Have concentrated positions or embedded gains requiring sophisticated navigation
Want to understand mechanics, not marketing promises
Recognize that sophistication means knowing what can go wrong
If you want reassuring generalities about tax alpha, this isn't your episode. If you want to understand the engineering behind these strategies so you can make informed decisions, this is exactly where to start.
This conversation with Brent modeled what escaping the Wealth Management Industrial Complex looks like: mechanics over magic, clarity over complexity, understanding over being sold to.
Continue the education: Subscribe to Wealth, Empowered at https://wealth-empowered.beehiiv.com/subscribe
Explore your specific situation: For concentrated positions, embedded gains, or wealth complexity requiring more than education — schedule a complimentary strategic session. We'll review your situation and determine if family office-level thinking without classic institutional conflicts makes sense for you.
Reach out: https://www.treussard.com/contact
Disclaimer: This content is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered financial advice. Listeners should consult with their own financial advisor before making any investment decisions. For full disclosures, visit treussard.com.
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Active ETFs and the Multi‑Manager Model with Kristof Gleich | Treussard Talks (E13)

In this conversation, Harbor Capital Advisors President and CIO Kristof Gleich and I dig into how to find true skill in managers, why the ETF wrapper changed the game, and how to build more resilient portfolios in an inflation‑prone world. We connect the mechanics and psychology of investing to the decisions that restore clarity and control for sophisticated investors.
You’ll hear us cover:
How to separate signal from story in manager due diligence, including cultural “tells” and hard no’s
The multi‑manager model: partnering with specialist boutiques vs. building in‑house
Active ETFs 101: what changed in 2019, and why the wrapper can lower cost and improve tax outcomes if used well
Mechanics that matter and operational oversight as investor protection
Systematic vs. discretionary edges and how to assess each
Psychology traps: performance chasing, timing mistakes, and setting risk so “I didn’t sign up for this” shouldn’t happen
Why commodities may be underowned given today’s regime and what role they can play
Why this matters now: Many investors still judge strategies by headline returns or brand names, not by process quality, alignment, and measurable sources of edge. In a world of rolling inflation shocks and fiat‑currency stress, getting structure right — manager selection, vehicle choice, fee drag, and tax handling — compounds more than hot dots.
Disclaimer: The content of “Treussard Talks” is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered financial advice. The views expressed are those of the host and guests and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Treussard Capital Management or its affiliates. Listeners should consult with their own financial advisor before making any investment decisions. For full disclosures, visit treussard.com.
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Fear, Not Risk: Rethinking the Equity Premium with Rob Arnott and Ed McQuarrie | Treussard Talks (E12)

Fear, Not Risk: Rethinking the Equity Premium with Rob Arnott and Ed McQuarrie | Treussard Talks (E12)
In this conversation, Rob Arnott (Founder and Chairman, Research Affiliates) and Ed McQuarrie (Professor Emeritus, Santa Clara University) examine why fear—of loss and of missing out—better explains asset pricing than traditional “risk” frameworks. We connect the mechanics and psychology of investing to help sophisticated investors restore clarity and control over portfolio decisions.
You’ll hear us cover:
Why 20th‑century returns were a potential outlier and what 19th‑century data says about the equity premium
Fear vs. risk: separating downside aversion from fear of missing out and why CAPM’s symmetry breaks
What challenges “Stocks for the Long Run” as a belief system, and what drives long‑horizon returns
Factor investing through a fear lens: value, size, and more
Practical portfolio design: Tobin’s two‑fund separation, where TIPS might fit, and limits of target‑date funds
Investor behavior in cycles: when fear of loss dominates vs. when FOMO dominates
Why this matters now: Many investors implicitly assume an ever‑present equity premium. If fear is the true driver and premiums vary with cycles and starting yields, portfolio choices and client guidance might need to adapt, as historical patterns suggest that investor sentiment can influence market cycles and premiums.
Disclaimer: The content of “Treussard Talks” is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered financial advice. The views expressed are those of the host and guests and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Treussard Capital Management or its affiliates. Listeners should consult with their own financial advisor before making any investment decisions. All investments carry the potential for loss, including the loss of principal. For full disclosures, visit treussard.com.
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Alternatives, Diversification, and Investor Agency with Jane Buchan | Treussard Talks (E11)

Alternatives, Diversification, and Investor Agency with Jane Buchan | Treussard Talks (E11)
 
In this conversation, Jane Buchan — CEO of Martlet Asset Management, co‑founder of PAAMCO (which grew to $32B AUM), former Dartmouth finance professor, and longtime CAIA leader — and I dig into what “alternatives” really are, how the space has evolved, and how disciplined due diligence restores clarity and control for sophisticated investors.
We link market mechanics with investor behavior to focus on practical choices that drive outcomes.
You’ll hear us cover:
A working definition of alternatives and how they mature from frontier to mainstream
Globalization, rising correlations, and why diversification still earns its keep
Private equity vs. hedge funds: leverage, long/short mechanics, and capacity limits
Private credit and direct lending: floating‑rate reality, regulatory arbitrage, and default plumbing
Due diligence in practice: separate accounts, custody risk, and aligning control with ownership
Bubble talk without the hype: being roughly right long‑term vs. perfectly timed
Investor psychology in alts: expectation setting, story risk, and staying power
Building the pipeline in finance and the power of asking better questions
Why this matters now: High-net-worth investors face more products and stories than ever. Clear mechanics, sober risk management, and true diversification — not magical thinking — are what preserve agency over outcomes.
Disclaimer: The content of “Treussard Talks” is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered financial advice. The views expressed are those of the host and guests and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Treussard Capital Management or its affiliates. Listeners should consult with their own financial advisor before making any investment decisions. For full disclosures, visit treussard.com.
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Defining FinTech with Michael Imerman, Ph.D. | Treussard Talks (E10)⁠ ⁠

Defining FinTech with Michael Imerman, Ph.D. | Treussard Talks (E10)
Join Jonathan Treussard, Ph.D. for a thoughtful conversation with Michael Imerman, Ph.D. — Professor of Finance at UC Irvine and author of The Economics of FinTech (2025). They define what truly counts as FinTech, map the ecosystem across verticals and horizontals, trace the post‑GFC innovation cycle, and separate durable signal from hype across AI, cloud, and blockchain. They also explore inclusion, alternative data, and fairness in credit decisions, and close with teaching, purpose, and the skills that create day‑one value in finance.
Key Highlights
What FinTech Really IsA clear definition that holds up in portfolios and policy, distinguishing finance‑adjacent tech from true FinTech.
The FinTech MapVerticals from payments, digital banking, lending, and digital wealth to PropTech and InsurTech. Horizontals like risk, valuation, and regulation. Enablers include AI, cloud, distributed ledgers, and a forward look at quantum computing.
After the GFCHow cycles of hype, shock, and regulation shift risk and activity, and why technology firms moved from vendors to direct financial service providers.
AI’s Breakout and Quantum’s HorizonWhat is driving adoption today, what’s realistic, and why quantum could matter over a five‑to‑ten‑year window.
Blockchain Beyond CryptoPragmatic applications like secured lending and collateral tracking that improve market plumbing and controls.
Inclusion and RiskThe promise and pitfalls of alternative data and AI in credit, including proxy variables and fairness challenges for regulators.
Teaching and PurposeBridging industry and classroom to build in‑demand skills and create day‑one value in finance.
Why It Matters for Sophisticated InvestorsPurposeful wealth management demands context. Understanding how technology, incentives, and regulation reshape intermediation and credit helps investors separate durable innovation from “solutions in search of a problem,” position capital with prudence, and stay aligned with long‑term goals.
Subscribe to Wealth, Empowered — practical, candid insight at the intersection of technology, markets, and purposeful wealth management. Built for operators, founders, and families who want clarity and control.Subscribe: https://wealth-empowered.beehiiv.com
DisclaimerThe content of Treussard Talks is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered financial advice. The views expressed are those of Jonathan Treussard and guests and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Treussard Capital Management or its affiliates. Listeners should consult their own financial advisors before making investment decisions. Visit www.treussard.com for additional disclaimers.

When History Meets Markets: Geopolitics, Civility, and Capital with David Kotok | Treussard Talks (E09)

When History Meets Markets: Geopolitics, Civility, and Capital with David Kotok | Treussard Talks (E09)
Join Jonathan Treussard for a thoughtful conversation with David Kotok. David’s decades of experience as CEO, CIO, and investor, along with his deep interest in history and geopolitics, provide powerful lessons for investors navigating uncertain times.
Key Highlights
The Grocery Store MBA
David shares how ten years working in his family’s grocery store instilled practical lessons in humility, service, and human connection—arguably as valuable for leadership and decision-making as any advanced degree.
Why Studying History Still Matters
Drawing inspiration from Churchill, David emphasizes the importance of understanding history not just for context, but for insight into cycles of war, peace, and global economics—and how those play out in today’s markets.
Financing Conflict in the Modern Era
Jonathan and David dive into the economic realities of modern warfare—how governments fund defense through borrowing rather than taxation, what that means for inflation, and the long-term consequences for future generations.
Civility in an Uncivil Age
In a profession where many stay silent, David underscores the importance of being direct yet civil, candidly highlighting risks and trade-offs rather than hiding behind consensus. It’s a reminder of how leadership, whether in finance or public discourse, requires integrity and courage.
The Investor’s Takeaway
From debt-fueled defense spending to the inflationary implications of geopolitical conflict, this episode connects the dots between history, policy, and capital markets. For seasoned professionals and families managing wealth across generations, David’s perspective illustrates why disciplined analysis, humility, and long-term thinking matter most.
Why It Matters for Sophisticated Investors
David Kotok’s career and worldview reinforce timeless wisdom: successful wealth management is not just about beating benchmarks but about understanding context—how human behavior, history, and geopolitics shape the economic risks and opportunities we face today. These insights are especially relevant for business leaders, families, and professionals who must position capital with both prudence and purpose.
If you enjoyed this episode and want access to thoughtful, unfiltered insight at the intersection of wealth and human behavior, subscribe to my free newsletter, Wealth, Empowered. Every two weeks, you’ll gain practical wisdom tailored for investors committed to long-term vision and purposeful wealth management.
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Disclaimer
The content of Treussard Talks is for informational purposes only and should not be considered financial advice. The views expressed are those of Jonathan Treussard and his guests and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Treussard Capital Management or its affiliates. Listeners should consult their own financial advisors before making investment decisions. Visit www.treussard.com for additional disclaimers.

Economics That Matters: From Academic Theory to Real-World Solutions with Larry Kotlikoff | Treussard Talks (E08)

Economics That Matters: From Academic Theory to Real-World Solutions with Larry Kotlikoff | Treussard Talks (E08)
Join Jonathan Treussard for a lively conversation with Larry Kotlikoff, Professor of Economics at Boston University, influential policy thinker, and longtime mentor. In this episode, Jonathan and Larry look back on the defining moments that shaped Larry’s career—from the early days at Penn and Harvard to the turbulence of academic politics and his groundbreaking work in fiscal and intergenerational accounting.
Learn more about Larry's Maxifi Planner here: https://maxifiplanner.com/
Key Highlights
Choosing the Road Less Traveled
Larry shares how he was torn between law school and economics, and how encouragement from mentors like Steve Ross set him on an unexpected path to Harvard and an entire career driven by curiosity and creativity.
Academic Hurdles and Speaking Your Mind
Larry talks about the challenges he faced at top universities, including getting pushed out of positions after making waves with his research. He talks about why being authentic and asking tough questions matters— even when it means not always fitting in.
Making Public Policy Count
Larry explains how his work at the Council of Economic Advisors and his research on fiscal and intergenerational accounting grew from a desire to have real impact on society, not just on academic debates.
Finding Value in Nonlinear Careers
The discussion highlights the unpredictable nature of meaningful work—how taking risks and accepting setbacks leads to a more rewarding journey, especially in a field where playing it safe is the norm.
Mentorship and Lasting Culture
Jonathan credits Larry’s personal style and independent thinking for helping create the world-class economics department he experienced at BU. They reflect on how true leadership is about building a culture where others can thrive.
Why It Matters for Sophisticated Investors
Larry’s story is a reminder: real leadership, whether in academia or finance, means taking risks, embracing setbacks, and staying true to your own vision. This episode offers lessons in creativity, resilience, and the importance of asking big questions, tailored for business leaders, families, and professionals committed to purposeful wealth management.
 
If you enjoyed this episode and want thoughtful, unfiltered insight at the intersection of wealth, purpose, and strategic thinking, sign up for my free newsletter, Wealth, Empowered. Every two weeks, you’ll get practical wisdom and commentary for business leaders, professionals, and families looking to align their wealth management with long-term vision and personal values.
Sign up here: https://wealth-empowered.beehiiv.com/
Disclaimer
The content of Treussard Talks is for informational purposes only and should not be considered financial advice. The views expressed are those of Jonathan Treussard and his guests and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Treussard Capital Management or its affiliates. Listeners should consult their own financial advisors before making investment decisions. Visit www.treussard.com for additional disclaimers.

Purpose, Access, and the Modern Investor’s Journey with Anna Paglia | Treussard Talks (E07)

Purpose, Access, and the Modern Investor’s Journey with Anna Paglia | Treussard Talks (E07)
Join Jonathan Treussard for a powerful conversation with Anna Paglia, Chief Business Officer at State Street Global Advisors, as they delve into the future of investing, leadership with purpose, and breaking down barriers to wealth creation. Anna’s inspiring story traces her journey from waiting tables in Rome while attending law school to her current executive leadership at a firm managing $4.7 trillion in assets.
Key Highlights
Breaking Down Barriers
Anna discusses her working-class upbringing and how it fueled her commitment to democratizing access to sophisticated wealth-building tools, challenging an industry long defined by exclusion.
From Law to Asset Management
Hear how Anna’s shift from entertainment law in Italy to asset management exemplifies the value of a non-linear career—and why adaptability is key to professional success.
The ETF Revolution
Discover how Anna helped champion ETFs, bringing institutional-level diversification to everyday investors and making market access possible with as little as $25.
Lessons in Leadership and Mentorship
Anna recounts formative mentorship from surprising places—including a restaurateur’s crisis wisdom—and shares how those lessons inform her leadership and resilience.
Purpose, Sacrifice, and Career Building
The dialogue explores the difference between “having a job” and “building a career,” including the role of sacrifice, vision, and authentic purpose.
Investment Psychology
Gain actionable advice on managing financial emotions during times of market volatility, and why the discipline of “don’t just do something, sit there” is often the savviest move.
Family Wisdom and Defining Success
Anna offers insights from her two grandmothers—one who embraced tradition, one who blazed her own trail—illuminating diverse paths toward happiness and authentic achievement.
The Future of Finance
The episode examines opportunities in democratizing private markets and the risks posed by social media-driven misinformation in investing.
Why It Matters for Sophisticated Investors
Anna’s perspectives connect real-world experience to themes that matter for business leaders, legacy families, and professionals managing significant wealth. The conversation seamlessly blends strategic, behavioral, and personal insights, offering both practical advice and inspiration for those navigating complex financial landscapes.
Listen to discover how purpose-driven leadership and industry innovation can transform financial complexity into clarity—and why empowering investors of all backgrounds is essential to the future of wealth management.
Episode Timestamps
01:00 — Anna’s journey: from law school waitress to leading strategic initiatives at a $4.7 trillion asset manager
05:00 — Breaking down barriers: how working-class roots shaped a mission to democratize sophisticated investing
12:00 — ETF revolution: institutional-quality diversification accessible with just $25
20:00 — The psychology of meaningful career building: sacrifice, purpose, and betting on your vision
26:00 — Managing investment emotions during volatility: why patient discipline beats reactive decisions
35:00 — Grandmother wisdom: two different paths to authentic fulfillment and defining success
38:00 — The future of finance: private market access and social media-driven risks
If you enjoyed this episode and want to receive thoughtful, unfiltered insight at the intersection of wealth, purpose, and strategic thinking, sign up for my free newsletter, Wealth, Empowered. Every two weeks, you’ll get practical wisdom and actionable commentary crafted for business leaders, professionals, and families looking to align their wealth management with their values and long-term vision.
Sign up here: https://wealth-empowered.beehiiv.com/
Disclaimer
The content of Treussard Talks is for informational purposes only and should not be considered financial advice. The views expressed are those of Jonathan Treussard and his guests and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Treussard Capital Management or its affiliates. Listeners should consult their own financial advisors before making investment decisions. Visit treussard.com for additional disclaimers.

Reclaiming Control, Legacy, and Family Dynamics: Estate Planning with Anne Rhodes & Dave Haughton | Treussard Talks (E06)

On this episode, I sit down with Anne Rhodes, Chief Legal Officer at Wealth.com, and estate attorney Dave Haughton for an important conversation about reclaiming control, navigating family dynamics, and how proactive estate planning shapes our wealth, legacies, and relationships across generations.
Anne and Dave share their journeys from major law firms to legal tech and public education. We dig into why estate planning is about much more than technical documents or tax savings—it’s about empowering families, resolving conflict before it starts, and connecting actions to the things that matter most.
You’ll hear us cover:
Anne and Dave’s paths from traditional law practice to digital estate planning and legal innovation
Essential estate planning documents to have at every life stage, from powers of attorney for young adults to advanced trusts for complex family dynamics
Probate, incapacity, and even the importance of sticky notes (literal and metaphorical) on personal possessions
Why “everyone has a plan—the question is, who wrote it: you, or the state?”
Family dynamics, inertia, and why tough conversations are actually an act of care
Real stories about inheritance, meaningful heirlooms, and the ripple effects of legacy (monetary and otherwise)
Procrastination and psychology: why we avoid planning, and the accessible paths forward
The purpose behind planning: honoring true intentions, empowering the next generation, and repairing or deepening family relationships both now and after we’re gone
Anne and Dave bring deep experience, candor, and commitment to making estate planning more accessible and human. Their perspectives help families tackle the hurdles, have the tough conversations, and make choices today that will outlast tomorrow.
If you want to understand how estate planning shapes not just what you leave behind, but the very fabric of your family and your community, this episode is essential listening.
Ready for more?
If you found this conversation helpful and want more thoughtful, candid insight at the intersection of money, meaning, and modern wealth, sign up for my free newsletter, Wealth, Empowered. Get practical insights and stories in your inbox every two weeks: https://wealth-empowered.beehiiv.com/ 
DISCLAIMER: The content of “Treussard Talks” is for informational purposes only and should not be considered financial advice. The views expressed are those of Jonathan Treussard and his guests and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Treussard Capital Management or its affiliates. Listeners should consult their own financial advisors before making investment decisions. Go to treussard.com for additional disclaimers.
01:00 — Anne & Dave’s backgrounds: law, technology, and family journeys
05:00 — What is estate planning? Powers of attorney, wills, and basic strategies for every stage of life
12:00 — Probate avoidance, sticky notes, and making your intentions clear
20:00 — Family dynamics, psychology, and approaching tough conversations
26:00 — The ripple effect of planning: legacy, meaning, community
35:00 — Rapid-fire questions: favorite word, fear, legacy, and more
38:00 — Closing thoughts: empowering the next generation, and the practical joy behind making a difference

Intergenerational Wisdom, Risk, and the Functions of Finance with Zvi Bodie | Treussard Talks (E05)

Intergenerational Wisdom, Risk, and the Functions of Finance with Zvi Bodie | Treussard Talks (E05)
On this episode, I sit down with Zvi Bodie—economist, author, advocate for the American investor, and my father-in-law—to explore how the core functions of finance shape not just markets and policy, but also the way we live, save, and prepare for uncertainty across our lives.
Our conversation takes us from Zvi’s journey growing up in Brooklyn and pursuing philosophy before discovering economics, to his pioneering research in risk, inflation-protected bonds, and the very real-world consequences of retirement planning and societal change. We dig into what it means for financial tools and policies to genuinely serve individuals and communities, how the theory-practice divide can be bridged, and why teaching and translation matter.
You’ll hear us cover:- Zvi’s path from Brooklyn to MIT to decades of teaching and advocacy- How and why “stocks are not a hedge against inflation”—and the fallacy of “stocks for the long run”- The invention, economics, and purpose of inflation-protected bonds (like TIPS and I-Bonds)- Why understanding core financial functions matters more than fixating on products or institutions- How evolving societal needs gave rise (and death) to pensions, 401(k)s, and mutual funds—and why adaptability is essential- Lessons from crises (LTCM, tech bubble, GFC) about psychology, risk, and humility- The vital importance of saving, preparing for adversity, and building resilience—financially and emotionally- The power of clear communication, financial literacy, and the meaning that comes from teaching and nurturing the next generation
Zvi brings intellectual honesty, historical context, and a deep commitment to making finance accessible—blending academic rigor with genuine care for families and everyday investors.
If you want to understand how finance really underpins our lives—and how its core principles translate into better decisions for your future—this conversation is essential listening.
If this resonates with you, consider subscribing to Wealth, Empowered (https://wealth-empowered.beehiiv.com/), my bi-monthly newsletter, where I share candid insights at the intersection of money, meaning, and modern wealth.
DISCLAIMER: The content of “Treussard Talks” is for informational purposes only and should not be considered financial advice. The views expressed are those of Jonathan Treussard and his guests and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Treussard Capital Management or its affiliates. Listeners should consult with their own financial advisors before making investment decisions. Go to treussard.com for additional disclaimers.
01:00 — Zvi’s early years, education, and path into economics and finance10:00 — Foundational lessons at MIT: the rise of financial science13:00 — Why stocks are not true inflation hedges or “safe in the long run”19:00 — The creation and purpose of inflation-protected bonds (TIPS, I-Bonds)23:00 — The functional perspective: why finance is about serving core human needs, not product labels27:00 — Retirement: how and why pensions gave way to 401(k)s, and what’s lost and gained32:00 — How psychology, herding, and surprise drive crises like LTCM, tech bubble, GFC37:00 — Integrating finance, decision-making under uncertainty, and the next generation40:00 — “Principles of Finance”: teaching core concepts and empowering new investors44:00 — Market psychology, humility, and preparing for the unexpected45:00 — The importance of saving, resilience, and community at every stage of life48:00 — Why teaching, financial literacy, and nurturing others is at the heart of fulfillment50:00 — Rapid-fire reflections: favorite words, sounds, fears, and hopes for the next generation